"We're pro-ASLA, but we're pro-Landscape Architects more than we're pro-ASLA.

That's the way it was and that's the way it will always be . . ."

LASN's relationship with the ASLA HQ has had its ups and downs. We're the press, and the executive committee and staff in D.C. sometimes don't like the questions we ask. At first, ASLA attacked LASN because we started this new magazine and were recognizing all these Licensed Landscape Architects who weren't necessarily ASLA members. They didn't like us coming in and talking about 'their' profession. In a petty way, they did all kinds of negative things to stop us - like they're doing now when they get some of the chapter reps and directors to work against us - but we compete because we share the ideas of the entire market, not just the members of the ASLA. In that respect, LASN is bigger than the ASLA because it's all about development (not social issues) and includes all licensed Landscape Architects, not just the members of
the society.

What was Don Robert's impact on you and the society?
George:
Besides his work and educational accomplishments, Don worked extensively with the International Federation of Landscape Architects (IFLA). Because of our focus on licensure, we were able to assist him and ASLA member Dororthy Kune in putting together an International Directory featuring Landscape Architects from more than 90 countries (See page 63). He had so many landscape architectural contacts around the world and he was a consummate teacher.
Don was also an original member of the AILA (The American Institute of Landscape Architects) which is that picture that we have with all the guys (See page 63). They were all in the AILA and - this is back when I just getting involved - there was the CLASS Fund as well as all these Landscape Architects in California that were licensed and wanting the profession to grow.

At the time, ASLA was more about membership, they were East Coast-based, and they were mostly against licensure. They were really against licensure because, before licensure, in order to be a respected Landscape Architect in most of the country, you had to be a member of the ASLA. To be a member of the ASLA, you had to be mentored for a while, have a certain level of education and amount of practice work, and you had to be recommended by several members who would vouch that you did good work. Anybody that wanted to say they were a Landscape Architect and do things like design a city park, somebody's home, or some big, landscaped area had to say, "I'm a member of the ASLA, I've been working in the industry, I'm qualified, I've got mentors and people recommending me, and I have ASLA after my name."

All of a sudden that ASLA tag, while it did add to the title, was not as important as it had been. The courts were saying: "ASLA is okay, but you're still just a posy planter." The movement coming out of California was, "No, we must get licensed. This is too important." And it was too important. There are floods, fires, and drought. There's sustainability. People can't die on tree stakes. You can't have high heels getting caught in paving materials, you need to have bollards to protect pedestrians, area lighting for security, people need a place to sit out of danger, and somebody has to be responsible for all that. So that's why AILA and ASLA clashed - or at least that's why California and the ASLA clashed. The guys out on the West Coast said, ?EUR~Look, this isn't happening. We need a licensure-based institute; we're not a society,' and they formed the AILA. So, after a few years of back and forth the AILA and the ASLA merged, and they made the founders of AILA Fellows of the ASLA. Still, for a long time, they left Don Roberts [and other AILA founders] off the ASLA Fellows list. We even published the picture that proved they were inducted, and had to advocate, but for the longest time they were just kept off the list after the merger. If you look at the ASLA Fellows directory now, they are there, but you have to search for AILA Fellow members to find them. It's silly, but it was all a part of the member versus licensure battle.

What happened at the 1990 ASLA San Diego Conference?
George: During David Bohardt's tenure as ASLA executive director, LASN was gaining popularity and pushing licensure, but ASLA HQ didn't like us. Bohardt wouldn't even allow us to exhibit in the San Diego Conference, so we set up on the street outside the convention center and talked to everyone on their way in. We were able to do that because it was a public sidewalk and we handed out our magazines as people walked from the hotel to the trade show. Bohardt and HQ got so upset with that, but the members and the presidents all liked us, and that forced [ASLA] to have a meeting with us.

The fact was - and still is - that a vast majority of LASN's news is positive towards the workings of ASLA members. Our stance was "Hey, we're just working for you guys." We showed all the times we were giving ASLA positive press, and asked them, "Why are you guys upset? We're helping you get membership. We talk about all the good things you do. But, if you do the wrong thing, we're going to talk about that as well because we're protecting Landscape Architects. I have Ray Page, Don Roberts, Burt and Stu Sperber, Court Paul, Bob Cardoza, Francis Sullivan, Frank Manwarren, AILA - I had all these guys to answer to. They saw the path, saw where this is going and that it's a big business. It's not a society, it's not a club, it's a profession?EUR? It's a business, and it's a big business." Our editor at the time, Larry Shield, was out there handing out the magazine and I was inside pressing the issue, but we made our case in front of several ASLA representatives and said, "We're pro-ASLA, but we're pro-Landscape Architects more than we're pro-ASLA." That's the way it was and that's the way it will always be ...

"LASN was a dedicated trade magazine for the Licensed Landscape Architect that coined the phrase Registered Landscape Architect (RLA) - which has now evolved into the Practicing Landscape Architect (PLA)"

 

What happened at the 1993 ASLA Chicago Conference?
George: After all the meetings at the San Diego conference, ASLA let us exhibit again and I began meeting with ASLA national and chapter presidents like Jot Carpenter, Bill Swain, Bob Mortensen, Cammeron Mann, Deb Mitchell, Tom Papandrew and Brian Kubota, as well as Kay Tiller and ASLA President's Medal Recipient, Roy Dunn who were saying, "Wait a minute, we need a magazine like yours. You're talking about the news. You're talking about projects. You're getting the products to us." All they had was the ASLA magazine, which was more educational and is meant to reach and educate the public as much as the profession. LASN was a dedicated trade magazine for the Licensed Landscape Architect that coined the phrase Registered Landscape Architect (RLA) - which has now evolved into the Practicing Landscape Architect (PLA) ?EUR" but ASLA HQ wasn't listening, especially Bohardt, who came from the cemetery association and was dead-set on burying this new competition.

The thing is, from the very start, LASN has been a big contributor to the profession and the ASLA. I did volunteer work for the chapter, and we were actually a major sponsor for the annual Fellows dinner. We have always focused on the Fellows because the Fellows are great. LASN reports on them every year because those are the people who mentored you and me. They should be very active in mentoring and advocating for the growth of the profession. They are arguably the profession's greatest assets... ASLA stopped us from sponsoring that dinner, too, but that was later under Jim Dalton.

Anyway, we were supporting the ASLA with volunteer time, sponsorships, and show booth participation. After four years, our priority at the show was so high that, when the time came to select our booths for the next year, the booth right at the very front of the show was open. So, we took it. It was a 10x20 space, and we took it. Well, [David Bohardt] didn't like that because he didn't want us to be the first booth you see as you walk into the show.

The exhibit hall was actually in three levels of the Chicago Hilton parking garage. At some point before the meeting, Bohardt moved our booth (without telling us) from our front 10x20 - which we had planned for, constructed, and had already done a lot of work to make a big impression - to a 10x8 booth in the very back corner of the very bottom level. And it was actually behind a pillar. He did that on purpose, too. Ironically, it didn't matter, because nobody went to that meeting.

So the joke was on them because the three levels of the Chicago parking lot/exhibit hall were empty. It was a bad showing for the ASLA. The booths had exhibitors in them, but no attendees. They were so empty, we [the exhibitors] were playing football across the aisles. You'd say, "Go down three rows and turn left." And then you'd throw the ball over three aisles. You could tell if they caught it or not by the reaction you heard. It was hilarious. Guys were riding bikes through the hall, as well. We just started having fun because it was so bad. And that was Chicago.

What happened after that?
George: After that, they got rid of David Bohardt. The problem was that they went from having Ed Able - who was all into licensure and growth, and he was excellent - to having David Bohardt, who came from the cemetery association. Landscape architecture was this vibrant, growing profession that affects everybody, and he just wanted to focus on petty things and politics, but the ASLA members realized they were on the wrong path, so they parted ways with him.

Then, they brought in James Dalton, who was an engineer. He was a step up, but being brought over from the engineering society, it was only a small step. Well, he was an engineer, and engineers are one of the main competitors of Landscape Architects, especially in terms of licensure. I mean, if you're going to put a drainage ditch or some kind of culvert in, is that a Landscape Architect's job or an engineer's? If you want to have a straight line and have a couple of the rocks every 14 feet, that could be a land planner and an engineer. If you want it to work while also looking really good and meeting the needs of the community, then it starts with a Landscape Architect. That's what I've always said, but that's not what Jim Dalton appeared to say. He was more like, "Well, let's set boundaries with the engineers," focusing the whole association on environmental issues and plant material. He was another executive director who was supposed to head this exciting, growing, visual, impactful profession of Landscape Architects, but instead he was linking everything to water, drainage, and climate. He was also trying to fight us because LASN was gaining strength, getting a bunch of advertisers, and carrying the news that mattered to a growing profession trying to make a statement in the world of development, but was sometimes critical of the society's direction.

Finally, after about three or four years of [Jim Dalton], they got Nancy Somerville. The chapter presidents and influencers got together and said, "The growth of the profession in the eyes of the development community is what matters. We're not engineers or environmentalists. Yeah, it's the green industry, but we're not just about water and plants - we're about complete and responsible development. You can be stewards, but Landscape Architects need to be active participants in the development community."

Don Roberts would say that the first question we should ask is "Should we build the project here?" If you're going to build a project, should it be built here? Or at all? If the answer is no, then no. If the answer is ?EUR~Yes, we should build it,' then we're talking about development. You don't want to put something in that's going to really affect the whole culture or community adversely, right? You can't do that. But other than that, if there's going to be development, there'd better be a Landscape Architect on it doing their best to responsibly meet the needs of the project.

With Nancy Somerville, we were working really well with the ASLA. The profession was growing, all states gained licensure, and Landscape Architects were gaining respect across all the spectrums of development. Since Nancy, there have been no problems with the booth at the ASLA Show, they send us press releases talking about their mission and legislation, they've worked with us with the Fellows information, and they were proactive. We had a really great relationship. We were promoting their news and events on a national level, working with the chapters, and supporting their legislation efforts.

What's the status of LASN's relationship with the ASLA?
George: I've never met the new Executive Director. After Nancy Summerville left in 2019 (they still won't say why she was forced out), ASLA has been more secretive about what's been going on over there.

They seem to have shifted away from a pro-development attitude, away from working with building associations, away from getting on the BIA and NAHB boards, and away from licensure. They seem to have shifted back to the environmental architect phase, not emphasizing licensure for membership, elected positions, or industry ambassadorships. They let the Melissa McCarthy ad go for an entire year and lost a tremendous opportunity to make a national statement. Then, they came out with the definition study that was so weak, we turned it into the ?EUR~ALPHA' debate on the status and direction of the profession.

We have seen so much news out of ASLA lately that screams, ?EUR~We're not going to work with the building industry.' It's become all about carbon, climate, and extreme politics and not about development - responsible development for people, for the planet, for everything. That's a huge mistake, because if you always attack the developers and builders, you'll never be able to influence their developments. You'll just become a pariah, and they'll get architects and engineers to do all the work. That's what all those guys were afraid of then, and that's what I'm afraid of now.

The National Recreation and Park Association didn't have a Landscape Architect on board until [LASN] came along and said, "What are you guys doing?" LASN had to go to NRPA and bring this to their attention. That was August of last year. With all the park development, they didn't have a Landscape Architect on the board. Virtually every park has to have a Landscape Architect involved. It was due to LASN's insistence that not just one, but two PLAs now sit on the NRPA Board of Directors - and one of them is an ASLA Fellow.

We are always working with and supporting ASLA members and administrations. The main thing is that Landscape Architects need to build their relationships with the many levels of developers out there. They have to work with the NRPA - the parks department - and the NAHB. If you don't have your say in there, then you won't have any say. It was only a few years ago, that AIA members wanted to prevent Landscape Architects from being licensed in the state of California (See page 60). There are between 140,000 and 150,000 licensed architects, and there are maybe 21,000 licensed Landscape Architects. Sure, LAs first license was about 70 years ago, but it's only been nationwide for a dozen years and we're not growing. According to the census bureau, it's been about the same number (20,000) for a long time. There's supposed to be a PLA team in every project. You should be leading, and you should be the ALPHA designers, and the profession/number of licensed Landscape Architects should be growing. They can make more buildings, but they can't make more land...

I don't know what that means for the society, but ASLA needs to educate the public and development community on the many, real benefits of a Landscape Architect and get away from the fringe politics that seems so prevalent in D.C.

Hoping, I guess to promote future growth, ASLA is focusing on elementary school kids for recruiting, but they're telling kids that if they become Landscape Architects, their main job will be reducing carbon, which is back to the environmental architect conversation.

We shouldn't try to trick people or have to convince them to consider landscape architecture. We need to focus on showing your strength and increasing demand. [ASLA] should focus on the Building and Related Industries and hammer them with all the reasons they need Landscape Architects. Then the developers will say, "We need more Landscape Architects now and we're willing to pay a premium for their services." And the Landscape Architects will go to the schools and say, "We need more students. We're swamped. We can't keep up with the demand." And when that happens, numbers will start to grow, wages will go up - everything will go up.

Hopefully, the ASLA is going to move in that direction and create a tremendous amount of demand, and we at LASN are going to advocate for Landscape Architects and pitch what you do. You can't have that stuff like that commercial with Melissa McCarthy go by. That was the worst thing [for the profession] and the ASLA just let that go ... Posy Planters ...

That's what spawned the ALPHA conversation, and I think ALPHA is going to end up winning. Here's the thing, if the schools do it correctly and if the ASLA promotes [landscape architecture] correctly, Landscape Architects can be equally as or more important than architects in the eyes of the public. Everything that's involved in building a building is very important, but it's all inside. If ASLA works to convince the developers they will benefit because their clients will be able to use the land in a better way, there's going to be more demand, more Landscape Architects, and better developments of all kinds everywhere.

So, moving forward, we are forging ahead and working with many of the ASLA chapters, some however anonymously.

We've been shown notes of conversations between chapter executives that say that working with LASN is a national conflict of interest. It's really sad because if the ASLA focused on the work and the industry, instead of the trends of the day, the whole profession will be uplifted. Also, and mainly, we pretty much like everyone we work with within the ASLA, especially the rank & file members who really just want to have security for their livelihood and want to participate in the greatest profession in the development community.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring . . .

As seen in LASN magazine, July 2025.